8:17 pm Thursday July 26, 2012
BEN: I'm here. I'm the Phantom of the Theatre. (Written in wavy lines to look phantomish)
DCW: What shall we talk about?
BEN: I want to discuss love.
DCW: Okay. Address your subject.
BEN: I'm loving the world.
DCW: What does that mean
BEN: I put energy into the life on earth.
DCW: You talked about (my friend) Mike putting energy into Catalina Island.
BEN: Mike loves Catalina.
DCW: He does. He says it is a sacred place.
BEN: He's right.
DCW: So is that what love is? Putting energy into something?
BEN: It's the kind of energy that makes the difference.
DCW: What kinds of energy are there?
BEN: Big and Little.
DCW: Oh. I wasn't expecting that. Can you explain?
BEN: Big energy encourages growth. Little energy makes things shrivel and shrink.
DCW: Is it still love if you put Little energy into something?
BEN: Yes. It's love because energy is love.
DCW: Sometimes people hurt people they claim to love.
BEN: People like that don't have Big love to give. They just have Little love.
DCW: Why does Little love hurt people
BEN: Because it's too little to satisfy a need. Little love gives a taste of what's good but it doesn't nourish. You have to hit something and make noise to fill the empty space.
DCW: Hitting things releases energy?
BEN: It does. So does making noise.
DCW: Why does someone go back to someone who hits?
BEN: You have to have love. If all you can get is Little love you take it.
DCW: Why do some people only have Little love?
BEN: Because they only receive Little love
BEN: From the people who love them.
DCW: But isn't the world full of Big love?
BEN: It is. But babies have to be fed love.
DCW: And what they get is what they give?
BEN: I'd say so.
DCW: Do people choose to come into a life where they receive only Little love?
BEN: It's a challenge. Some people want to turn Little love into Big love.
DCW: Can that be done?
BEN: It can. By finding a larger source.
DCW: You can do that even if you were a Little-love baby?
BEN: Yes. Sometimes it takes years to find the source.
DCW: How do you find it?
BEN: You find ways to satisfy the hunger in your soul.
Does anyone who was given Big love ever give Little love or only have Little love?
BEN: YesYou can choose to use.
BEN: Like Ebeneezer Scrooge. He loved money and used people. Money doesn't love you back.
DCW: You need to keep being loved?
BEN: You need to love and be loved.
DCW: You talked about wanting to be loved as motivation for making music.
BEN: I loved being loved.
DCW: Did you feel unloved?
BEN: I sometimes felt that my family loved me too little.
DCW: They seemed like loving people.
BEN: They tried. But we were a means to an end for them.
DCW: Surely not from the beginning.
BEN: They wanted boys.
DCW: What's wrong with that?
BEN: They didn't want boys to love but to be their security.
DCW: That has historical precedent.
BEN: I know. But so does violence and Killing. Things boys do because they have Little love.
DCW: Tell me about your brother who was an alcoholic.
BEN: My brother filled his empty spaces with drugs and alcohol. He needed Big love and felt better if he drank.
DCW: What about you?
BEN: I did sex and drugs. I wanted love more than anything. I thought sex was the way to get it.
DCW: The drugs?
BEN: Mostly to help me work. And to make up for the feeling of not Being.
DCW: Not Being?
BEN: I often felt that I wasn't real.
DCW: Like a phoney?
BEN: Yeah. Like I was wearing a mask.
DCW: So even if you were loved it wasn't you being loved.
Is there anything else you want to say about love?
BEN: I want to say that love is what we do when we help something grow.
DW: People who go to war say they love their country.
BEN: Some of them do.
DW: If putting energy into something is love and if you hate something and put energy into it, does that mean that hate is love?
BEN: It can be. When you withhold energy (from something) don't touch it or see it, you hate it. If you hurt someone there is energy and a chance it will be (become?) love.
DW: People who start out fighting become friends or lovers sometimes.
BEN: I've seen that sometimes.
This is one of our early conversations, about two months after Ben died. I didn't always know how to respond to some of his statements which often baffled me. You can see more of what Ben has to say about Love in his blog post on Good and Evil. dw